<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: American versus British newspapers&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:23:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2004 23:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-230</guid>
		<description>The biggest selling &quot;newspaper&quot; in the UK is the Sun with a circulation of some 4 million.  The contents of the paper are openly partisan and largely right wing despite a claimed allegiance to the Labour Party.  The contents are  made up of sport, sensationalist stories about sex, drugs and rock and roll, celebrity and soap coverage.  The only &quot;news&quot; stories tend to be jingoistic rants likely to cause prejudice against foreigners,immigrants or other minorities. Why do some British papers achieve such a massive circulation?  For the same reason that chat shows of the Springer, Oprah variety attract such a wide audience.  Oh yeah, and there are tits on page 3.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest selling &#8220;newspaper&#8221; in the UK is the Sun with a circulation of some 4 million.  The contents of the paper are openly partisan and largely right wing despite a claimed allegiance to the Labour Party.  The contents are  made up of sport, sensationalist stories about sex, drugs and rock and roll, celebrity and soap coverage.  The only &#8220;news&#8221; stories tend to be jingoistic rants likely to cause prejudice against foreigners,immigrants or other minorities. Why do some British papers achieve such a massive circulation?  For the same reason that chat shows of the Springer, Oprah variety attract such a wide audience.  Oh yeah, and there are tits on page 3.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Feb 2003 00:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-229</guid>
		<description>&#039;I believe one reason is because their press is partisan&#039;

&#039;I prefer the American *ideal* of a watchdog press that is independent of government and, as much as possible, politics.&#039;

&#039;Would we be better off with an openly partisan press?&#039;

You cannot be serious! I guess it&#039;s hard to discern things in the dark.

&#039;I&#039;d also argue that US journalism deludes itself in believing in its objectivity.&#039;

That&#039;s much more like it.

&#039;I do believe that we are poorly served by the pretence of objectivity.&#039;

Even better. 

How many of your papers have prominently reported Nelson Mandela&#039;s comments? Hans Blix&#039;s pique at Mr Powell&#039;s bullshitting about his report? I&#039;ve got a million of &#039;em folks but my wife&#039;s muscling in to use the machine. Suffice to say that the Guardian or the Times, &#039;partisan&#039; as they may be, never stoop as low as your papers of record in their burial of unpleasant facts or opinions. Your pundits are only fearless to the degree that their opinions align with the establishment. It&#039;s a career like sales and in that corporate culture you find the bland but zealous goody two shoes types do well. Yes sir no sir, three bags full sir. Whereas it seems to me the tradition of press independence is much stronger in England. 

American journalism used to be respectable; now it isn&#039;t (excepting marvels like Helen Thomas). Great to see people at least talking about the problem, but the diagnosis appears to be &#039;lack of partisanship&#039; which would be hugely amusing if it wasn&#039;t so worrying. Try &#039;excess of bullshit&#039; and see how you go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;I believe one reason is because their press is partisan&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8216;I prefer the American *ideal* of a watchdog press that is independent of government and, as much as possible, politics.&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8216;Would we be better off with an openly partisan press?&#8217;</p>
<p>You cannot be serious! I guess it&#8217;s hard to discern things in the dark.</p>
<p>&#8216;I&#8217;d also argue that US journalism deludes itself in believing in its objectivity.&#8217;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s much more like it.</p>
<p>&#8216;I do believe that we are poorly served by the pretence of objectivity.&#8217;</p>
<p>Even better. </p>
<p>How many of your papers have prominently reported Nelson Mandela&#8217;s comments? Hans Blix&#8217;s pique at Mr Powell&#8217;s bullshitting about his report? I&#8217;ve got a million of &#8216;em folks but my wife&#8217;s muscling in to use the machine. Suffice to say that the Guardian or the Times, &#8216;partisan&#8217; as they may be, never stoop as low as your papers of record in their burial of unpleasant facts or opinions. Your pundits are only fearless to the degree that their opinions align with the establishment. It&#8217;s a career like sales and in that corporate culture you find the bland but zealous goody two shoes types do well. Yes sir no sir, three bags full sir. Whereas it seems to me the tradition of press independence is much stronger in England. </p>
<p>American journalism used to be respectable; now it isn&#8217;t (excepting marvels like Helen Thomas). Great to see people at least talking about the problem, but the diagnosis appears to be &#8216;lack of partisanship&#8217; which would be hugely amusing if it wasn&#8217;t so worrying. Try &#8216;excess of bullshit&#8217; and see how you go.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. Cline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Nov 2002 04:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Lance: Excellent points all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance: Excellent points all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lance Knobel</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Knobel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Nov 2002 02:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I think you also need to take into consideration the intensely competitive nature of the UK newspaper market. The four national broadsheets (plus the Financial Times) need to have distinctive identities to establish their market positions. 

I&#039;d also argue that US journalism deludes itself in believing in its objectivity. Most broadsheet journalism in the UK is also concerned with a dispassionate search for &quot;truth&quot;. But, for example, it&#039;s clear that The Guardian&#039;s viewpoint (in the choice of stories it pursues, as well as how to present them) is broadly on the left, while the Telegraph is on the right. They trust their readers to apply those filters. 

The tabloid papers are an entirely different world (and most of the stunning circulation numbers to which you refer are tabloid, not broadsheet -- only the Telegraph, of the broadsheets, has a circulation that nudges beyond 1 million). The tabloids operate far more to an agenda pronounced from on high (whether it&#039;s the editor or the owner).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you also need to take into consideration the intensely competitive nature of the UK newspaper market. The four national broadsheets (plus the Financial Times) need to have distinctive identities to establish their market positions. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also argue that US journalism deludes itself in believing in its objectivity. Most broadsheet journalism in the UK is also concerned with a dispassionate search for &#8220;truth&#8221;. But, for example, it&#8217;s clear that The Guardian&#8217;s viewpoint (in the choice of stories it pursues, as well as how to present them) is broadly on the left, while the Telegraph is on the right. They trust their readers to apply those filters. </p>
<p>The tabloid papers are an entirely different world (and most of the stunning circulation numbers to which you refer are tabloid, not broadsheet &#8212; only the Telegraph, of the broadsheets, has a circulation that nudges beyond 1 million). The tabloids operate far more to an agenda pronounced from on high (whether it&#8217;s the editor or the owner).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Waight</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Waight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Nov 2002 09:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-226</guid>
		<description>I think there is an important distinction which should be made between ideological bias and partisan bias.  An ideological bias in the media is not a problem if it is openly acknowledged (as is apparently done in England), and Eric Alterman may be right that it would lead to more interesting newspapers and less public apathy.  But the presence of an excessive partisan bias transforms journalism into advertising, too distorted and unreliable to be useful in any serious political debate.  

Andrew, can you elaborate a little on the studies which have found that &quot;citizens find partisan information more politically useful than so-called objective information&quot;?  I&#039;m not sure I undestand what that means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is an important distinction which should be made between ideological bias and partisan bias.  An ideological bias in the media is not a problem if it is openly acknowledged (as is apparently done in England), and Eric Alterman may be right that it would lead to more interesting newspapers and less public apathy.  But the presence of an excessive partisan bias transforms journalism into advertising, too distorted and unreliable to be useful in any serious political debate.  </p>
<p>Andrew, can you elaborate a little on the studies which have found that &#8220;citizens find partisan information more politically useful than so-called objective information&#8221;?  I&#8217;m not sure I undestand what that means.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bruce Rheinstein</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Rheinstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Nov 2002 06:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-225</guid>
		<description>The U.S. grew out of an overtly partisan (or British-style) press sometime early in the twentieth century.  I agree about the necessity of a watchdog press, but my own impression is that (as I think you observe) much of what passes for objectivity is anything but.

I&#039;d like to see a return to some muckraking, even at the expense of objectivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The U.S. grew out of an overtly partisan (or British-style) press sometime early in the twentieth century.  I agree about the necessity of a watchdog press, but my own impression is that (as I think you observe) much of what passes for objectivity is anything but.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see a return to some muckraking, even at the expense of objectivity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. Cline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-224</guid>
		<description>I think your observation is correct, but I would not call it &quot;the&quot; reason. As with most things, reasons are many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your observation is correct, but I would not call it &#8220;the&#8221; reason. As with most things, reasons are many.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-223</guid>
		<description>The reason that individual newspapers in the UK have higher circulation than in the US is that big newspapers worldwide are generally centered around a major metropolitan area. The UK has exactly one of those, so newspapers in other areas don&#039;t reach the critical mass as the ones in London, which have a nationwide appeal.

In the US, newspapers rarely have a nationwide appeal. There are exceptions -- newspapers engineered to have a nationwide audience, like Gannett&#039;s USA Today. Or large metro newspapers like the New York Times. In fact, NY papers might have that kind of wide-spread appeal, except that as you get further out of NYC, you get into the sphere of influence of other metro publications in Philadelphia and Boston.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason that individual newspapers in the UK have higher circulation than in the US is that big newspapers worldwide are generally centered around a major metropolitan area. The UK has exactly one of those, so newspapers in other areas don&#8217;t reach the critical mass as the ones in London, which have a nationwide appeal.</p>
<p>In the US, newspapers rarely have a nationwide appeal. There are exceptions &#8212; newspapers engineered to have a nationwide audience, like Gannett&#8217;s USA Today. Or large metro newspapers like the New York Times. In fact, NY papers might have that kind of wide-spread appeal, except that as you get further out of NYC, you get into the sphere of influence of other metro publications in Philadelphia and Boston.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A. Cline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Cline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-222</guid>
		<description>By &quot;which is it?&quot; I assume you&#039;re looking for my opinion. I prefer the American *ideal* of a watchdog press that is independent of government and, as much as possible, politics. I believe in this ideal despite evidence that people find partisan information more politically useful. Would we be better off with an openly partisan press? I don&#039;t know. I do believe that we are poorly served by the pretence of objectivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8220;which is it?&#8221; I assume you&#8217;re looking for my opinion. I prefer the American *ideal* of a watchdog press that is independent of government and, as much as possible, politics. I believe in this ideal despite evidence that people find partisan information more politically useful. Would we be better off with an openly partisan press? I don&#8217;t know. I do believe that we are poorly served by the pretence of objectivity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bruce Rheinstein</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/469.html/comment-page-1#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Rheinstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=469#comment-221</guid>
		<description>&quot;The New York Times reports today on a memo FOX News Chairman Roger Ailes sent to President Bush offering advice following 9/11. This should be a shocking lapse of journalistic ethics, but it&#039;s not. The ethic that maintains distance between journalists and politicians is quite dead...&quot;

&quot;The British national newspapers are aligned with the various political factions in England. They make no pretence of objectivity. And, according to several landmark studies dating back to the 1950s, citizens find partisan information more politically useful than so-called objective information.&quot;

Okay.  So which is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The New York Times reports today on a memo FOX News Chairman Roger Ailes sent to President Bush offering advice following 9/11. This should be a shocking lapse of journalistic ethics, but it&#8217;s not. The ethic that maintains distance between journalists and politicians is quite dead&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The British national newspapers are aligned with the various political factions in England. They make no pretence of objectivity. And, according to several landmark studies dating back to the 1950s, citizens find partisan information more politically useful than so-called objective information.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay.  So which is it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
