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	<title>Comments on: Network breakdown&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: rgrafton</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4190</link>
		<dc:creator>rgrafton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4190</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad I commented here rather than PressThink. I don&#039;t think my testosterone level is sufficient today to do battle at Jay&#039;s site.&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ll be looking forward to your comments next week.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad I commented here rather than PressThink. I don&#8217;t think my testosterone level is sufficient today to do battle at Jay&#8217;s site.
<p>I&#8217;ll be looking forward to your comments next week.</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4189</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>R- I think I&#039;ll try to answer your questions on the blog early next week. We&#039;re talking about these issues in class. And I&#039;d like a little time to collect my thoughts.

But, quickly: Earlier this summer I heard an interview with a photographer on NPR on the topic of photographing war and genocide. And he made an interesting point: Sometimes the photos get in the way of the story. This was a reaction to the pathetic appeal of photography. The rhetoric of photography can&#039;t do logos (medium doesn&#039;t use words) and ethos (of the photographer) seems to me to be largely ignored by the medium (i.e. who pays attention to photo credits?).

That&#039;s not to say photos can&#039;t be factual, but, then, remember that facts belong to the inartistic proofs (the artistic proofs being ethos, pathos and logos), i.e. we don&#039;t have to construct them.

I have photographed the dead on just a few occasions. I hated it. And I&#039;ve pointed my camera at some emotional scenes that made me ashamed of myself later on. But the camera is like the hole in the sand for the ostrich...when I&#039;m behind it, it&#039;s like I&#039;m not really there. I&#039;m concentrating on what I see playing out on a little screen. It&#039;s this phenomenon that costs photographers their lives. I tell students about the time I was photographing a protest march in Charleston, WV during the &#039;78 coal miners&#039; strike. I was right up on a guy, walking backwards, getting some great shots of an angry face--thinking: &quot;Man! This is great stuff!&quot; Well, the guy was getting angry &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;at me&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;. And I didn&#039;t realize it until he hit me with his sign. I never saw it coming.

Where is this going? Okay, this: Shooting is a complex and emotional experience.

In terms of the pictures themselves: I think the press should make the pictures and then think long and hard about how/if to use them and under what circumstances. And, for the most part, I think editors do a good job of agonizing over these issues even if the public isn&#039;t always happy with the result. What the public doesn&#039;t see is that there is nearly always contention in newsrooms about how/if to use such pictures. There&#039;s no standard.

I&#039;ll try to address your questions specifically next week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R- I think I&#8217;ll try to answer your questions on the blog early next week. We&#8217;re talking about these issues in class. And I&#8217;d like a little time to collect my thoughts.</p>
<p>But, quickly: Earlier this summer I heard an interview with a photographer on NPR on the topic of photographing war and genocide. And he made an interesting point: Sometimes the photos get in the way of the story. This was a reaction to the pathetic appeal of photography. The rhetoric of photography can&#8217;t do logos (medium doesn&#8217;t use words) and ethos (of the photographer) seems to me to be largely ignored by the medium (i.e. who pays attention to photo credits?).</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say photos can&#8217;t be factual, but, then, remember that facts belong to the inartistic proofs (the artistic proofs being ethos, pathos and logos), i.e. we don&#8217;t have to construct them.</p>
<p>I have photographed the dead on just a few occasions. I hated it. And I&#8217;ve pointed my camera at some emotional scenes that made me ashamed of myself later on. But the camera is like the hole in the sand for the ostrich&#8230;when I&#8217;m behind it, it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m not really there. I&#8217;m concentrating on what I see playing out on a little screen. It&#8217;s this phenomenon that costs photographers their lives. I tell students about the time I was photographing a protest march in Charleston, WV during the &#8217;78 coal miners&#8217; strike. I was right up on a guy, walking backwards, getting some great shots of an angry face&#8211;thinking: &#8220;Man! This is great stuff!&#8221; Well, the guy was getting angry <b><i>at me</i></b>. And I didn&#8217;t realize it until he hit me with his sign. I never saw it coming.</p>
<p>Where is this going? Okay, this: Shooting is a complex and emotional experience.</p>
<p>In terms of the pictures themselves: I think the press should make the pictures and then think long and hard about how/if to use them and under what circumstances. And, for the most part, I think editors do a good job of agonizing over these issues even if the public isn&#8217;t always happy with the result. What the public doesn&#8217;t see is that there is nearly always contention in newsrooms about how/if to use such pictures. There&#8217;s no standard.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll try to address your questions specifically next week.</p>
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		<title>By: rgrafton</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4188</link>
		<dc:creator>rgrafton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4188</guid>
		<description>This is sorta OT, but sorta not. As I&#039;m sure you know, FEMA is asking photographers not to take pictures of the dead. Per usual, the press went into a First Amendment frenzy. Personally, I don&#039;t think the government should suppress information, but on the other hand, I certainly understand how the press could be seen as a distraction to the important work that is going on. But that is not my question. &lt;p&gt;I&#039;m asking you these questions Doc, because I know you have experience in photojournalism.  So many in the press think the &quot;story&quot; can&#039;t be told without photos of dead people. I know that other cultures routinely show death in their media, but for myriad reasons, we sanitize death and destruction. Do you think this contributes to the Disneyland mentality of so many in the press who thought &quot;this couldn&#039;t happen in America&quot; and who thought NO was like being in a &quot;third world country&quot;? I&#039;m sure a review of news stories would show that death and destruction is every bit as common here as abroad, but the press shelters us. Another questions for you is, should this change? Why do those in the press believe we are above the laws of God &amp; Man? Are they letting us down by not showing the 9/11 photos of people jumping out of buildings? &lt;p&gt;The most disgusting thing I ever heard from a network news anchor was last year when Brian Williams said that pictures of flag draped coffins were like a &quot;drug&quot; for the press. I suppose like many &quot;drugs&quot; the attaction is unavailability. How should the press use these images?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is sorta OT, but sorta not. As I&#8217;m sure you know, FEMA is asking photographers not to take pictures of the dead. Per usual, the press went into a First Amendment frenzy. Personally, I don&#8217;t think the government should suppress information, but on the other hand, I certainly understand how the press could be seen as a distraction to the important work that is going on. But that is not my question.
<p>I&#8217;m asking you these questions Doc, because I know you have experience in photojournalism.  So many in the press think the &#8220;story&#8221; can&#8217;t be told without photos of dead people. I know that other cultures routinely show death in their media, but for myriad reasons, we sanitize death and destruction. Do you think this contributes to the Disneyland mentality of so many in the press who thought &#8220;this couldn&#8217;t happen in America&#8221; and who thought NO was like being in a &#8220;third world country&#8221;? I&#8217;m sure a review of news stories would show that death and destruction is every bit as common here as abroad, but the press shelters us. Another questions for you is, should this change? Why do those in the press believe we are above the laws of God &#038; Man? Are they letting us down by not showing the 9/11 photos of people jumping out of buildings? </p>
<p>The most disgusting thing I ever heard from a network news anchor was last year when Brian Williams said that pictures of flag draped coffins were like a &#8220;drug&#8221; for the press. I suppose like many &#8220;drugs&#8221; the attaction is unavailability. How should the press use these images?</p>
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		<title>By: Rhetorica: Press-Politics Journal</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4192</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhetorica: Press-Politics Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4192</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;I&#039;ll give it a shot...&lt;/strong&gt;

Jay Rosen, from the comments to yesterday&#039;s entry: Yes, except that, Andrew, you should do a post on this idea that...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>I&#8217;ll give it a shot&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Jay Rosen, from the comments to yesterday&#8217;s entry: Yes, except that, Andrew, you should do a post on this idea that&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rhetorica: Press-Politics Journal</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4191</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhetorica: Press-Politics Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4191</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;I&#039;ll give it a shot...&lt;/strong&gt;

Jay Rosen, from the comments to yesterday&#039;s entry: Yes, except that, Andrew, you should do a post on this idea that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>I&#8217;ll give it a shot&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Jay Rosen, from the comments to yesterday&#8217;s entry: Yes, except that, Andrew, you should do a post on this idea that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4187</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4187</guid>
		<description>Jay... Well, that sounds like a book to me :-) But, okay, I&#039;ll give it go. Look for it on Monday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay&#8230; Well, that sounds like a book to me <img src='http://rhetorica.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  But, okay, I&#8217;ll give it go. Look for it on Monday.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Rosen</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4186</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Rosen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4186</guid>
		<description>Yes, except that, Andrew, you should do a post on this idea that a persistent failure of journalists is to &quot;provide context.&quot;  There is no such thing as Context with a capital C.  &lt;i&gt;Which&lt;/i&gt; context to add is a debateable decision that cannot be governed by any existing rule set in journalism.

Instead of developing new and necessary rule sets, what journalists usually do in that situation is ignore the fact that they&#039;re making an (arguable) decision.  Of course it only leads to more arguments.

If I want to add historical context right to Katrina coverage (&quot;come on, provide some context&quot;) is it the history of Gulf Coast Hurricanes?  Of other public disasters?  Or cities that died?  Of Levee funding?  Of race and class in New Orleans?  It sounds good, &quot;provide context.&quot;  But it&#039;s actually just a name for a big black box with unsolved journalistic problems in it.  Thus the need for your post.

Maybe you can figure out what people mean when they say it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, except that, Andrew, you should do a post on this idea that a persistent failure of journalists is to &#8220;provide context.&#8221;  There is no such thing as Context with a capital C.  <i>Which</i> context to add is a debateable decision that cannot be governed by any existing rule set in journalism.</p>
<p>Instead of developing new and necessary rule sets, what journalists usually do in that situation is ignore the fact that they&#8217;re making an (arguable) decision.  Of course it only leads to more arguments.</p>
<p>If I want to add historical context right to Katrina coverage (&#8220;come on, provide some context&#8221;) is it the history of Gulf Coast Hurricanes?  Of other public disasters?  Or cities that died?  Of Levee funding?  Of race and class in New Orleans?  It sounds good, &#8220;provide context.&#8221;  But it&#8217;s actually just a name for a big black box with unsolved journalistic problems in it.  Thus the need for your post.</p>
<p>Maybe you can figure out what people mean when they say it.</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4185</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4185</guid>
		<description>Marc... You won&#039;t get an argument from me :-) But what you will get is my attempt, however insignificant, to make journalism the way I think it ought to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc&#8230; You won&#8217;t get an argument from me <img src='http://rhetorica.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  But what you will get is my attempt, however insignificant, to make journalism the way I think it ought to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Schneider</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/4247.html/comment-page-1#comment-4184</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=4247#comment-4184</guid>
		<description>The point is, though, that news organizations (at least on television)today do not exist to provide thoughtful reporting.  Instead, they exist to provide an emotional catharsis that boosts ratings.  The on-air reporters have now discovered that viewers like to see emotion (perhaps harking back to Walter Cronkite&#039;s teary-eyed announcement of JFK&#039;s death).  So, now it&#039;s appropriate for reporters to express outrage at the situation just as the suffering people do even though they don&#039;t really know what the underlying situation is.  Instead of providing some balance and some perspective, they simply provide personality.  It was absolutely outrageous, IMO, for Brian Williams to conduct his ridiculous interview with Harry Connick.  

Increasingly, as I have complained about before, news organizations have less ability or willingness to present complex stories with any nuance or sophistication.  Their technology allows them to present more vivid images, but they don&#039;t provide context.  Whether this is intentional to increase ratings or a lack of ability, I don&#039;t know.  But there seems to be little incentive for journalists to practice restrained and thoughtful journalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is, though, that news organizations (at least on television)today do not exist to provide thoughtful reporting.  Instead, they exist to provide an emotional catharsis that boosts ratings.  The on-air reporters have now discovered that viewers like to see emotion (perhaps harking back to Walter Cronkite&#8217;s teary-eyed announcement of JFK&#8217;s death).  So, now it&#8217;s appropriate for reporters to express outrage at the situation just as the suffering people do even though they don&#8217;t really know what the underlying situation is.  Instead of providing some balance and some perspective, they simply provide personality.  It was absolutely outrageous, IMO, for Brian Williams to conduct his ridiculous interview with Harry Connick.  </p>
<p>Increasingly, as I have complained about before, news organizations have less ability or willingness to present complex stories with any nuance or sophistication.  Their technology allows them to present more vivid images, but they don&#8217;t provide context.  Whether this is intentional to increase ratings or a lack of ability, I don&#8217;t know.  But there seems to be little incentive for journalists to practice restrained and thoughtful journalism.</p>
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