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	<title>Comments on: Turn me ______&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: F. Simmons</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-4585</link>
		<dc:creator>F. Simmons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 07:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Considering your previous post about interactive news, I find it interesting that you dismiss the idea that TV shows receive a larger degree of after-the-fact cognition.  For instance, the recent flap about how mean &quot;American Idol&quot; has gotten reveals a certain degree of rhetorical analysis by the viewing public that was really not a regular part of TV watching 20 years ago.  I think the lecture-vs-conversation holds just as true in this case.  To answer your question, I don&#039;t think we&#039;re smarter, just a little less ignorant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering your previous post about interactive news, I find it interesting that you dismiss the idea that TV shows receive a larger degree of after-the-fact cognition.  For instance, the recent flap about how mean &#8220;American Idol&#8221; has gotten reveals a certain degree of rhetorical analysis by the viewing public that was really not a regular part of TV watching 20 years ago.  I think the lecture-vs-conversation holds just as true in this case.  To answer your question, I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re smarter, just a little less ignorant.</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3899</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>R- Good catch! I missed that one. Yep...large areas of agreement there :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R- Good catch! I missed that one. Yep&#8230;large areas of agreement there <img src='http://rhetorica.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: rgrafton</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3898</link>
		<dc:creator>rgrafton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dana Stevens agrees with you: &lt;a href=&quot;http://slate.com/id/2117395/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://slate.com/id/2117395/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dana Stevens agrees with you: <a href="http://slate.com/id/2117395/" rel="nofollow">http://slate.com/id/2117395/</a></p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3897</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=3951#comment-3897</guid>
		<description>S- re: Aha!

I&#039;m happy to give you my argument, but you won&#039;t find it much different from Postman&#039;s re: medium and message. We may have to pick away at it a bit at a time, largely because it&#039;s the end of the semester (student papers by the zillions), and I&#039;m in the middle of writing/editing two essays (one of which I may talk about in a blog post later today).

Quickly, to start, I need to add something to the following statement for clarity: &quot;I would argue that content format must follow what the medium dictates, i.e. there is very little choice.&quot; What I failed to say is that this assertion assumes that the communicator wants to use a particular medium in the most effective way and knows what that way is. For example, since TV is a picture-driven medium, one has a better chance of using the medium well by employing images than not. So the content is constrained in this way unless the communicator doesn&#039;t care about the message or doesn&#039;t know what the medium requires.

I&#039;ll try to keep this going based on your responses, but do me a favor: One or two questions at a time. I do want to have this conversation with you, but I can&#039;t let it interfere with everything else that I&#039;m doing now. Two weeks from now, this isn&#039;t a problem. In fact, perhaps we&#039;ll discuss this topic at length in Nashville in two weeks.

re: research value

You bet! Go for it! I might at some point. Right now I have several projects in the works that I must finish first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S- re: Aha!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m happy to give you my argument, but you won&#8217;t find it much different from Postman&#8217;s re: medium and message. We may have to pick away at it a bit at a time, largely because it&#8217;s the end of the semester (student papers by the zillions), and I&#8217;m in the middle of writing/editing two essays (one of which I may talk about in a blog post later today).</p>
<p>Quickly, to start, I need to add something to the following statement for clarity: &#8220;I would argue that content format must follow what the medium dictates, i.e. there is very little choice.&#8221; What I failed to say is that this assertion assumes that the communicator wants to use a particular medium in the most effective way and knows what that way is. For example, since TV is a picture-driven medium, one has a better chance of using the medium well by employing images than not. So the content is constrained in this way unless the communicator doesn&#8217;t care about the message or doesn&#8217;t know what the medium requires.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll try to keep this going based on your responses, but do me a favor: One or two questions at a time. I do want to have this conversation with you, but I can&#8217;t let it interfere with everything else that I&#8217;m doing now. Two weeks from now, this isn&#8217;t a problem. In fact, perhaps we&#8217;ll discuss this topic at length in Nashville in two weeks.</p>
<p>re: research value</p>
<p>You bet! Go for it! I might at some point. Right now I have several projects in the works that I must finish first.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3896</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>re: &quot;I would argue that content format must follow what the medium dictates, i.e. there is very little choice.&quot;

Aha!

Now, this is an argument that I am very interested in hearing. It is important, to me, to hear &lt;i&gt;your&lt;/i&gt; argument.

Important in the way a serious student wants to transact on a topic that especially peeks his interest with someone he thinks can help him learn, discover and articulate his thoughts better.

I have not been successful in getting you to engage in such a transaction, or at least that&#039;s my impression. The closest I got was on &lt;a href=&quot;http://rhetorica.net/archives/003280.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;February 6, 2005 12:21 AM&lt;/a&gt;, &quot;I will give this layers idea serious consideration.&quot;

I see the infrastructural biases as the &quot;dictates&quot; of the medium. They consist of definitory and strategic rules that make that genre of medium recognizable.

It is a upper layer &quot;communication&quot; protocol, above the structural biases.  My previous question, put off to later, was an attempt to ask how TIVO, for example, might alter the infrastructural biases.

I have tried to lay out an outline of this hypothesis &lt;a href=&quot;http://rhetorica.net/archives/003003.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and posted it on my blog &lt;a href=&quot;http://sisypheanmusings.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_sisypheanmusings_archive.html#KairosMsgControl2bm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, click on Excerpt).

I would like to know if there is, IYO, research value there. Could there be an interdisciplinary thesis in rhetoric, information theory, ..., or is it old news?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: &#8220;I would argue that content format must follow what the medium dictates, i.e. there is very little choice.&#8221;</p>
<p>Aha!</p>
<p>Now, this is an argument that I am very interested in hearing. It is important, to me, to hear <i>your</i> argument.</p>
<p>Important in the way a serious student wants to transact on a topic that especially peeks his interest with someone he thinks can help him learn, discover and articulate his thoughts better.</p>
<p>I have not been successful in getting you to engage in such a transaction, or at least that&#8217;s my impression. The closest I got was on <a href="http://rhetorica.net/archives/003280.html" rel="nofollow">February 6, 2005 12:21 AM</a>, &#8220;I will give this layers idea serious consideration.&#8221;</p>
<p>I see the infrastructural biases as the &#8220;dictates&#8221; of the medium. They consist of definitory and strategic rules that make that genre of medium recognizable.</p>
<p>It is a upper layer &#8220;communication&#8221; protocol, above the structural biases.  My previous question, put off to later, was an attempt to ask how TIVO, for example, might alter the infrastructural biases.</p>
<p>I have tried to lay out an outline of this hypothesis <a href="http://rhetorica.net/archives/003003.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> and posted it on my blog <a href="http://sisypheanmusings.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_sisypheanmusings_archive.html#KairosMsgControl2bm" rel="nofollow">here</a>, click on Excerpt).</p>
<p>I would like to know if there is, IYO, research value there. Could there be an interdisciplinary thesis in rhetoric, information theory, &#8230;, or is it old news?</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3895</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 05:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=3951#comment-3895</guid>
		<description>S- I would argue that content format must follow what the medium dictates, i.e. there is very little choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S- I would argue that content format must follow what the medium dictates, i.e. there is very little choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3894</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;... I have a dim view of television as a medium for news.&quot;

&quot;What I&#039;m against is watching whole TV shows as a knowledge delivery method.&quot;

Then is your complaint with content format or the medium?

If content format, then who made that &lt;i&gt;choice&lt;/i&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; I have a dim view of television as a medium for news.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;What I&#8217;m against is watching whole TV shows as a knowledge delivery method.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then is your complaint with content format or the medium?</p>
<p>If content format, then who made that <i>choice</i>?</p>
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		<title>By: the chutry experiment</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3902</link>
		<dc:creator>the chutry experiment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=3951#comment-3902</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Channel Surfing&lt;/strong&gt;

Several other people have been sounding off on the Steven Johnson article I mentioned this afternoon, most of whom I found via this entry by Derek of Earth Wide Moth. Dana Stevens mentions a Salon interview with Adbusters editor Kalle...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Channel Surfing</strong></p>
<p>Several other people have been sounding off on the Steven Johnson article I mentioned this afternoon, most of whom I found via this entry by Derek of Earth Wide Moth. Dana Stevens mentions a Salon interview with Adbusters editor Kalle&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Earth Wide Moth</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3901</link>
		<dc:creator>Earth Wide Moth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=3951#comment-3901</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;On Channel Two&lt;/strong&gt;

Until I read Andy Cline&#039;s entry at Rhetorica.net, I didn&#039;t even know it was TV Turn-Off week.&#160; I&#039;ve already soaked up a few minutes of TV today, so I guess I blew that one.&#160; Next year, next year.&#160; Plus, with the NBA playoffs, forget it.&amp;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>On Channel Two</strong></p>
<p>Until I read Andy Cline&#8217;s entry at Rhetorica.net, I didn&#8217;t even know it was TV Turn-Off week.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve already soaked up a few minutes of TV today, so I guess I blew that one.&nbsp; Next year, next year.&nbsp; Plus, with the NBA playoffs, forget it.&#038;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3951.html/comment-page-1#comment-3893</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=3951#comment-3893</guid>
		<description>S- re: later Cool. Just let me know.

I&#039;m a fan of smart classrooms. Our journalism lab is set up to use all available technologies. I taught in smart classrooms at Park for two years. And I taught in the computer-mediated English lab at UMKC beginning in 1996.

I have no problem using video of all sorts. I made great use of Jon Stewart&#039;s appearance on Crossfire last semester, for example.

What I&#039;m against is watching whole TV shows as a knowledge delivery method. I much prefer to use bits of video at a time and structure more active learning exercises around it, or use video critically, i.e. here&#039;s an example of X, now let&#039;s discuss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S- re: later Cool. Just let me know.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a fan of smart classrooms. Our journalism lab is set up to use all available technologies. I taught in smart classrooms at Park for two years. And I taught in the computer-mediated English lab at UMKC beginning in 1996.</p>
<p>I have no problem using video of all sorts. I made great use of Jon Stewart&#8217;s appearance on Crossfire last semester, for example.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m against is watching whole TV shows as a knowledge delivery method. I much prefer to use bits of video at a time and structure more active learning exercises around it, or use video critically, i.e. here&#8217;s an example of X, now let&#8217;s discuss.</p>
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