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	<title>Comments on: The A-word&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3860</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://sisypheanmusings.blogspot.com/2005/04/arrogant-out-of-touch-and_111378719463192047.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Arrogant, Out of Touch and Untrustworthy? Believe It! (Can Fish See the Water?)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Going back to Dr. Cline (ok, my bias is showing - but c&#039;mon - he&#039;s good), he has a useful post listing the reasons modern journalists are perceived as arrogant: &lt;a href=&quot;http://rhetorica.net/archives/003844.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Nicholas Kristof almost gets it&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. It&#039;s a good list, if a little academic (like this series of posts). But if one word can capture the cause of the public&#039;s perception that journalists are arrogant and out of touch, I&#039;m afraid it&#039;s &quot;accountability&quot; - or more specifically - the lack of it. Cline touches on that when mentioning &quot;failing to correct their errors&quot;. I added &quot;a false sense of &lt;a href=&quot;http://rhetorica.net/archives/003760.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1st Amendment ownership&lt;/a&gt;&quot;. But the most relevant to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/columnist/0,1299,DRMN_86_110,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Littwin&#039;s column&lt;/a&gt; is the phrase, &quot;dismissing the lived experience of others.&quot; That&#039;s a VERY effective path to being perceived as arrogant and out of touch.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sisypheanmusings.blogspot.com/2005/04/arrogant-out-of-touch-and_111378719463192047.html" rel="nofollow">Arrogant, Out of Touch and Untrustworthy? Believe It! (Can Fish See the Water?)</a><br />
<blockquote>Going back to Dr. Cline (ok, my bias is showing &#8211; but c&#8217;mon &#8211; he&#8217;s good), he has a useful post listing the reasons modern journalists are perceived as arrogant: <a href="http://rhetorica.net/archives/003844.html" rel="nofollow"><i>Nicholas Kristof almost gets it</i></a>. It&#8217;s a good list, if a little academic (like this series of posts). But if one word can capture the cause of the public&#8217;s perception that journalists are arrogant and out of touch, I&#8217;m afraid it&#8217;s &#8220;accountability&#8221; &#8211; or more specifically &#8211; the lack of it. Cline touches on that when mentioning &#8220;failing to correct their errors&#8221;. I added &#8220;a false sense of <a href="http://rhetorica.net/archives/003760.html" rel="nofollow">1st Amendment ownership</a>&#8220;. But the most relevant to <a href="http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/columnist/0,1299,DRMN_86_110,00.html" rel="nofollow">Littwin&#8217;s column</a> is the phrase, &#8220;dismissing the lived experience of others.&#8221; That&#8217;s a VERY effective path to being perceived as arrogant and out of touch.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3859</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>S- re: avoided dumbness

Yes, you have. But I expected that. That part of my comment was aimed elsewhere :-)

As I was leaving my office after posting that comment, I realized I had missed the obvious from my own discipline (and I think it fits with what you&#039;re getting at): We can and should discuss how the right, left, and journalism (left and/or right) vary in terms of tactics regarding the rhetoric of dismissal.

re: Which do you think is closest to one of the forms of journalistic arrogance?

Interesting question. A quick answer would be that journalistic dismissal would more closely mirror the left in terms of journalistic rhetoric (the whole epistemology argument I&#039;ve made before). But I would say that when the press climbs on its moral high horse, it more closely resembles the right in that regard. I have no evidence, so consider this a hypothesis. It would be interesting to find out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S- re: avoided dumbness</p>
<p>Yes, you have. But I expected that. That part of my comment was aimed elsewhere <img src='http://rhetorica.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As I was leaving my office after posting that comment, I realized I had missed the obvious from my own discipline (and I think it fits with what you&#8217;re getting at): We can and should discuss how the right, left, and journalism (left and/or right) vary in terms of tactics regarding the rhetoric of dismissal.</p>
<p>re: Which do you think is closest to one of the forms of journalistic arrogance?</p>
<p>Interesting question. A quick answer would be that journalistic dismissal would more closely mirror the left in terms of journalistic rhetoric (the whole epistemology argument I&#8217;ve made before). But I would say that when the press climbs on its moral high horse, it more closely resembles the right in that regard. I have no evidence, so consider this a hypothesis. It would be interesting to find out.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3858</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I understand you hesitancy. But I would ask that you consider how journalists have perceived and treated their critics when dismissing their life experience and the cultural differences between Left/Right.

For example, journalists are quick to dismiss the arguments of their critics as &quot;dumb&quot; while at the same time finding justification for their POV in the &quot;dumb&quot; criticism from both sides.

That might be two different forms of arrogance unique to journalists&#039; culture.

Then there is the cliche about the Right&#039;s moral arrogance and the Left&#039;s intellectual arrogance. Which do you think is closest to one of the forms of journalistic arrogance?

Hopefully I&#039;ve avoided the dumbness that concerned you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand you hesitancy. But I would ask that you consider how journalists have perceived and treated their critics when dismissing their life experience and the cultural differences between Left/Right.</p>
<p>For example, journalists are quick to dismiss the arguments of their critics as &#8220;dumb&#8221; while at the same time finding justification for their POV in the &#8220;dumb&#8221; criticism from both sides.</p>
<p>That might be two different forms of arrogance unique to journalists&#8217; culture.</p>
<p>Then there is the cliche about the Right&#8217;s moral arrogance and the Left&#8217;s intellectual arrogance. Which do you think is closest to one of the forms of journalistic arrogance?</p>
<p>Hopefully I&#8217;ve avoided the dumbness that concerned you.</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3857</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 07:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>S- Yes. Perceiving it as arrogance is just one way to perceive it. And the left and right, generally speaking, may perceive it differently. But, I&#039;m dealing with a definition of arrogance in a discussion of same, so my intention here is to accept that just as liberal dismissal of the right may be perceived as arrogance, conservative dismissal of the left may be perceived as arrogance--based on the definition I&#039;m using.

I&#039;m avoiding of any discussion of which side is more dismissive (and why) because that could get dumb very quickly :-) It would be less dumb if we had a metric. I&#039;m not sure we do. I suppose we could have a qualitative discussion of it, but then we&#039;re into whose experience is more real--and again, dumbness could follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S- Yes. Perceiving it as arrogance is just one way to perceive it. And the left and right, generally speaking, may perceive it differently. But, I&#8217;m dealing with a definition of arrogance in a discussion of same, so my intention here is to accept that just as liberal dismissal of the right may be perceived as arrogance, conservative dismissal of the left may be perceived as arrogance&#8211;based on the definition I&#8217;m using.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m avoiding of any discussion of which side is more dismissive (and why) because that could get dumb very quickly <img src='http://rhetorica.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  It would be less dumb if we had a metric. I&#8217;m not sure we do. I suppose we could have a qualitative discussion of it, but then we&#8217;re into whose experience is more real&#8211;and again, dumbness could follow.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3856</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 06:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;The right does this as well as the left.&lt;/i&gt;

But the auditor perceives it differently, based on the differences between the culture/ideology of Left/Right, does she not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The right does this as well as the left.</i></p>
<p>But the auditor perceives it differently, based on the differences between the culture/ideology of Left/Right, does she not?</p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3855</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2005 04:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>TM- As I said: &quot;Part of what [arrogance] means is dismissing the lived experience of others.&quot;

The right does this as well as the left. The left does not corner the market on seeing itself as enlightened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TM- As I said: &#8220;Part of what [arrogance] means is dismissing the lived experience of others.&#8221;</p>
<p>The right does this as well as the left. The left does not corner the market on seeing itself as enlightened.</p>
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		<title>By: TM Lutas</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3854</link>
		<dc:creator>TM Lutas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that a good deal of the arrogance is not so much class based but ideologically based. The center-left &quot;liberal&quot; culture assumes that they are the enlightened ones, leading society ever forward to the progressive promised land. There&#039;s an awful lot of arrogance embedded in that world view. 

Most of us belong to multiple cultures so it&#039;s quite important that the specific culture that is the cause of a behavior should be identified. Is the cultural bias professional, J-school based, ideological, or from some other cultural source? It&#039;s important to nail down exactly where the problem is coming from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that a good deal of the arrogance is not so much class based but ideologically based. The center-left &#8220;liberal&#8221; culture assumes that they are the enlightened ones, leading society ever forward to the progressive promised land. There&#8217;s an awful lot of arrogance embedded in that world view. </p>
<p>Most of us belong to multiple cultures so it&#8217;s quite important that the specific culture that is the cause of a behavior should be identified. Is the cultural bias professional, J-school based, ideological, or from some other cultural source? It&#8217;s important to nail down exactly where the problem is coming from.</p>
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		<title>By: rgrafton</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3853</link>
		<dc:creator>rgrafton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Then there&#039;s the ultimate in press arrogance, the federal shield law, which is supra-Constitutional and would place journos ABOVE the law, giving them rights and privileges no other citizen enjoys.&lt;p&gt; I might be for this law if I thought it would improve the news, but unfortunately, we would see more &quot;unnamed sources&quot; and outright making stuff up since the reporters would know they could not be held accountable.&lt;p&gt; The federal shield law might more palatable to the public if journos would give something up in return, like making the libel laws more consumer friendly, rather than press friendly, or even better, restricting the use of &quot;unnamed sources&quot; to a very narrow category, with severe punishment for failure to comply. The press needs to be held MORE accountable, not less. That they think they must be above the law in order to do their job, is the ultimate chutzpah, and I hope the federal shield law is shot down----it offends me that is even being considered.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then there&#8217;s the ultimate in press arrogance, the federal shield law, which is supra-Constitutional and would place journos ABOVE the law, giving them rights and privileges no other citizen enjoys.
<p> I might be for this law if I thought it would improve the news, but unfortunately, we would see more &#8220;unnamed sources&#8221; and outright making stuff up since the reporters would know they could not be held accountable.</p>
<p> The federal shield law might more palatable to the public if journos would give something up in return, like making the libel laws more consumer friendly, rather than press friendly, or even better, restricting the use of &#8220;unnamed sources&#8221; to a very narrow category, with severe punishment for failure to comply. The press needs to be held MORE accountable, not less. That they think they must be above the law in order to do their job, is the ultimate chutzpah, and I hope the federal shield law is shot down&#8212;-it offends me that is even being considered.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3852</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2005 06:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wpp3/?p=3844#comment-3852</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/04/nick_kristof_wo.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Nick Kristof Worries About Media Credibility&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/04/nick_kristof_wo.html" rel="nofollow">Nick Kristof Worries About Media Credibility</a></p>
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		<title>By: acline</title>
		<link>http://rhetorica.net/archives/3844.html/comment-page-1#comment-3851</link>
		<dc:creator>acline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>S- Yes, that&#039;s a good addition to the list.

2a speaks a little to trustworthiness and being out of touch. But, mostly, my list is specific to my discipline, which is what I intended.

Perhaps you and others will add to it. A collective list might get a little attention.

re: or is that another (two?) essay(s)?

haha...  maybe :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S- Yes, that&#8217;s a good addition to the list.</p>
<p>2a speaks a little to trustworthiness and being out of touch. But, mostly, my list is specific to my discipline, which is what I intended.</p>
<p>Perhaps you and others will add to it. A collective list might get a little attention.</p>
<p>re: or is that another (two?) essay(s)?</p>
<p>haha&#8230;  maybe <img src='http://rhetorica.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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